Bill has been preparing daily messages for some time, the fruit of his nightly meditations on Scripture. Some of these have been published on Facebook. We intend to select a few of these as topic pieces for the blog here. Written by Bill sometime this year.
In the predawn of creation, Lucifer, the son of the morning, organized a rebellion against God. One third of all the angels conspired with him. His one objective was to be equal with God. He “said in his heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High“ (Isaiah 14:12-14).
The God-deniers of our day are reenacting Satan’s rebellion by “receiving not the love of the truth that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie; that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (1 Thessalonians 2:10-12). The delusion and lie are that man can control the weather.
• God created and controls all weather systems.
God established the circuits of the wind. “The wind goes toward the south and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits“ (Ecclesiastes 1:6). God “changes the times and seasons“ (Daniel 2:21). He created the oceans and the transfer of moisture by means of the clouds. “For he makes small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapor thereof: which the clouds do drop and distill upon man abundantly” (Job 36:27-28). Satan had to get permission from God to destroy Job’s ten sons and daughters with “a great wind from the wilderness” (Job 1:19).
• God uses weather to bless or curse people, cities and nations.
In Noah’s day, God judged the wickedness of all the people with a worldwide flood. He promised that if His nation would obey His commandments, “The Lord shall open to you his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto your land in his season.” But if they worshipped other gods, “the heaven that is over you shall be brass, and the earth that is under you shall be iron. The Lord shall make the rain of your land powder and dust: from heaven it shall come upon you until you be destroyed” (Deuteronomy 28:12,23,24).
Notice how precise God is in withholding rain from one city or parcel of ground and not to others: “I have withheld the rain from you, where there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered” (Amos 4:7).
• Controlling weather would mean blocking God’s judgment.
“The fool has said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 53:1). Money and work that are spent on “climate change” are acts of foolishness. “Be not deceived, God will not be mocked: for whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap“ (Galatians 6:7) God assures us, and His Judgments will be carried out: “For it is written, vengeance is mine, I will repay says the Lord” (Romans 12:19). Our job is to warn the wicked to turn from their wicked ways (Ezekiel 3:17,18).
Bill Gothard, Ph.D. EmbassyUniversity.com
I am not a fan of the ideas of Climate change. I believe it is based on faulty science. But it seems like Bill here implies that climate change is based on the belief that man can control the weather and from what I’ve read about the ideas of climate change, it is more about bad influences on the weather based on use of fossil fuels and that due to the over use and dependence of fossil fuels, the climate of the planet is warming up. What Bill is implying here is that Climate change is about control of the weather. Quoting I Thess 2:10-12 about a strong delusion isn’t about climate change. That is being read into that verse and in reading the bigger portion of I Thess, delusion is more about false teachings. The rest of the quotes from Bill are about God using weather to judge places, which really is skating on think ice. Is Bill then saying that something like Hurricane Ian is a judgement on Florida? That is the road this is going down on and I think a dangerous one at that. I really don’t think proof texting verses about bad weather such as hurricanes, earthquakes, tornados etc. should not be used by Christians to then claim God is judging a certain area. Pat Robertson fell in that trap a number of years ago when he blamed a devastating earthquake in Haiti on some devil pack that happen in the 18th century. He was wrong and was properly roasted over it. Florida has a Christian governor, so I fail to see how Hurricane Ian is a judgement on the State of Florida and possible South Carolina which also has a lot of Christians in it. Bible verses should not be used as clubs on others, especially right now with the on-going weather disaster in Florida and other States.
As to judgement from Ian, I find it interesting that Ian made an unusual beeline straight for Disney World, an area virtually untouched by hurricane activity over many decades. Just interesting.
Scripture is clear that God uses weather to judge people. Another example:
Deuteronomy 11:16-17 “Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; And then the LORD’s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.”
There is no definition of “strong delusion”. It is interesting – as Bill has pointed out in seminars – that the Greek can actually be “THE lie”. “THE lie” is the lie that Satan told Eve . . . That we can be “like God” . . . We can be God.
That is the mindset of the world today . . . The source of all truth and power lies within me, at the very least within “us”, and all we need to do is band together and MAKE IT HAPPEN. I, personally, laugh when I see otherwise intelligent scientists imagine that we can make the world warmer or colder. We have, by global action, rid ourselves of CF4 (refrigerants) that supposedly were causing the “ozone hole”. Guess what? It is still there. Inanimate forces, including volcanoes and sun cycles and dust storms, far overshadow our “noise level” input to the climate.
This mindless arrogance was also on display in the recent pandemic. I am hard pressed to find any proof that the shutdowns and mass vaccine campaigns made any real impact. Hilariously so. I myself got COVID before the first shutdown in Feb. 2020, was forced to take the vaccine to keep my job end of last year, then got it again a few months ago. Felt the same both times. All the most strident adherents – double vaxed and triple boosted – ended up getting it. Every one. The thing that has saved us has been the dilution of the virus by mutations. Which was an act of the Lord.
Again, climate change (global warming) is based on faulty science. Yes, there is a lot of faulty science going around in the name of global warming, covid pandemic etc. But the answer to faulty science is not faulty bible quoting. I think I get Bill’s point that climate change can’t happen because God controls the weather, but many bad practices can affect local conditions such as logging away all the trees, not cleaning out dead brush, big dams etc. Whether or not this hurricane was directed by God against Disney, the worst of it is found in Naples and Fort Myers, not Disney. Yes, the bible has a number of examples of bad weather being used by God in judgement but that shouldn’t be the road we should go down in response to devasting natural disasters and that is the road Bill did go down in trying to disprove global warming. The better aim in response to any natural disaster is to help, give, show compassion and prayer. It is not to sit back and try and figure out who God is trying to smack down and judge.
Due to work, I had to become vaccinated as well as boosted. The same for my spouse and our daughter do to schooling. None of us ever had covid yet, thank God, one of our sons just received the initial set, no booster shot and did get covid while in the house with us. I am not sure what to say why some become infected and others not.
I am pleased to hear that the Lord has spared some from COVID, you and yours especially. I should have expected that, but it seemed like everyone I know got it. I do see benefits in inoculations but I also see dangers. The greatest danger is in trying to solve an overwhelming global problem without the Lord.
“Trust the science” is bad advice. We use science, but we never blindly trust it because it is constantly changing, at the least being refined. We blindly trust the Lord – we will never lose out if we do that, regardless of how unclear our understanding of Him may be at times.
The cause and effect of human actions on our environment cannot be denied, point accepted. But even there that stems almost entirely from failing of clear directives that God has given in His Word. Things like covetousness, a lust for pleasure, living large for time and temporal things instead of as “strangers and pilgrims” traveling to another world. The FIRST stop for any pressing problem is to see if – or how – we have transgressed His will as expressed in Scripture, and then taking practical steps with that as a starting point.
No I don’t think the issue is trusting the science, but the scientist. Or in the vaccine case, those peddling the science.
My mind reels with how much misunderstanding and misinformation there is about this virus and how vaccines work.
The three vaccines in circulation presently are not live-virus vaccines. They are mRNA vaccines. That means no part of an actual virus is entering your system. Many vaccines work that way. mRNA are different ones.
It’s basically puts a spike protein similar to the one found in COVID in your blood. This is supposed to stimulate a response.
Now, it HAS been shown to do so. No question. Problem is we can’t account for EVERY body that will ever be injected. It seems right now that many people do not react to the spike protein at all.
And those that do have a shelf life. At first, t was estimated about 6 months. Now we know it is much shorter on average. Hence the boosters.
But it is certainly a mess. I don’t believe the science is the problem, though. Science by nature is always learning and experimenting, and yes, changing. That is how it works.
It’s when we say “trust the science” to mean “the science is settled” that we can err.
And for what it is worth, the issue with climate change/global warming is not really that the planet is warming. A lot of data shows it is. It’s a question of what causes it, what we can do about it (if anything, which isnt much practically), and whether the costs of trying to do something about it benefit us in the long run.
Of the three major (only?) vaccines, the J&J one DOES have fragments of human DNA from the stem cell lines originally harvested from aborted babies in the 1960s or so. The others do not. ALL were developed using those stem lines. The “spikes” apparently are producing blood clots in some individuals. That they do not know all of the side effects is obvious.
Correct on the global warming. The world has turned colder and warmer on multiple occasions. The “golden age” of the world with lush vegetation from pole to pole had, apparently, high concentrations of CO2 in the air. Plants love it. And then all that vegetation was precipitously shoved underground during the flood to produce the vast – largely untapped – reservoirs of oil and coal that are slowly being burned, returning that CO2 to the air. That this is a problem, THAT science has not demonstrated. We were told a decade ago that large portions of coastal land would be underwater by now. Didn’t happen, not even a smidgeon. Looks like the Lord has planned for it all.
This is an organization that talks about the contaminations of vaccines via aborted babies and cell lines from them. Johnson and Johnson used a direct line from aborted babies. The others two big vaccine lines might have been tested on a cell line from a kidney from 1973 which is unclear if that baby was aborted or not. This is a problem with all vaccines, so one needs to investigate and search these things out.
This was my understanding, although some are still derived from animal sources. Not so with COVID. Only J&J grows the vaccine in that stem cell bath – the other two simply replicate the chemicals of the developed vaccine. It is sad, it is a crime. If God can keep track of spilled blood of the murdered on the ground, even decades or centuries later, screaming out to Him . . . Surely He notices the fragments of DNA that float around in our bloodstream after such an injection, DNA He recognizes from those two very specific babies He was weaving together in their mother’s womb, only to be aborted, and then used for perpetual medical research.
I wasn’t talking at all about the aborted babies issue. I am aware of that.
I was talking about the KIND of vaccines these COVID vaxes are. They are unlike other vaxes in that they do not contain a VIRUS. That is the main issue here.
Now that issue of aborted fetal cells is something I have looked very closely into.
It is a mess for sure. I believe it is because whatever happened happened so long ago, and many of the parties using these cells did not keep good records.
But make no mistake. MANY vaccines today are indeed using some of these cells. I don’t know exactly which ones or how many. I doubt anyone really does (and no, the insert isn’t a good source for that – long story).
The date of the abortions is important, because it was before Roe v. Wade. You couldn’t just get an abortion anywhere, let alone donate the remains to science. Some sources claim these were elective abortions; others therapeutic (risk of life to the mother, etc.)
In any case, I don’t find it that much of a moral quandary. No further abortions are being used for this purpose (yes, we do know this). And those that were, whatever the cause, were put to use savin lives. It’s much like an organ donation that way.
I understand if you disagree. That is fine. We do need to be careful. And informed.
You are far more aware in these areas than the average believer.
The Lord said His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways our ways. The end never justifies the means.
Ecclesiastes 3:15 “That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.”
HE requires the things that are past. Doesn’t snuff the smoking flax, break the bruised reed, i.e. the things that we consider “in the noise” and not worth worrying about. God with His laser vision sees the little fragments of DNA from those children circulating in my blood EVERY time He looks at me. A crime, for which justice will be served.
When it came to “taking the good despite the bad”, the Lord’s edicts regarding any gold and jewel encrusted idols His people might find along the way is instructive.
Deuteronomy 7:25-26 “The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.”
Bringing an “abomination” into our houses – and that appears to include just the good parts, the gold and jewels, makes my house an abomination, and cursed. I cannot help think of the matters of our day not on high parade that the Lord calls “abomination”. Those companies – and individuals – that bring that “abomination” on in, honored place, became an abomination as well, with the Lord suddenly looking for ways to rid Himself of them. That figures toward your other post, regarding hurricanes.
I will try to interpret 🙂
“HE requires the things that are past. – God doesn’t forget a crime that was committed in the 1970s. It was just a few minutes ago to Him. Speaking to “let’s move on and take the good from it”.
“When it came to “taking the good despite the bad”, the Lord’s edicts regarding any gold and jewel encrusted idols His people might find along the way is instructive.” – Find an evil idol encrusted with gold and silver, you destroy the whole thing, not keeping the treasures. That would also speak to “let’s move on and take the good from it”.
“Bringing an “abomination” into our houses – and that appears to include just the good parts, the gold and jewels, makes my house an abomination, and cursed.” – The principle in the scripture cited . . . If God declares something an “abomination” to Him, then bringing that “abomination” into a house makes the whole house cursed, and “abmoninable”. Vaccines created from an “abomination” of a destroyed child – will they be blessed, even after a LONG time? That is what I wrestle with, and why many have opted to go unvaccinated, even if it means losing their jobs. Another witness against “let’s move on and take the good from it”.
God incidentally also calls sodomy an abomination. People that invite it into their houses, businesses that invite it in also become cursed, an “abomination”. That means He will keep taking swipes at it until He destroys eventually it.
Hope that was a tad clearer.
Actually, a Hurricane passed right over Disney World two or three years ago. It was one of the ones just before Sally.
That area hasn’t been “untouched for decades.” These statements can easily get you in trouble. Problem is Disney World sits inland, almost in the exact center of the peninsula.
Hurricanes strike coastal areas first (I know – duh). By the team even the most powerful storm hits the Lake Buena Vista area, it has already weakened. It won’t be striking at full strength.
And Disney hasn’t been sitting on their thumbs for decades. They have been using their money to invest in safe structures and insurance for the parks. Biggest concern is typically flooding. But again, Disney had a plan for that. Most of that land was swamp when Walt bought it. A LOT of earthworks had to be done to make it viable for construction. When they did that, they decided to build most of the parks at a two-story level. As you walk down Main Street USA, you are actually on floor 2 of the construction, even though it is ground floor relatively speaking.
Flooding can still be an issue. It’s just more of an issue for the utilidor operation system instead of the edifices
Universal by comparison had far more costly damage after Ian. Two of the major coasters there had track submerged.
Not insisting that the Lord sent Ian to clobber Disney. It remains interesting that very shortly after they “came out” in direct attack on children and the Lord and decency everywhere Ian roared into town and came right at them. Perhaps a warning shot?
I don’t think you can say what you just said here, and then say you don’t insist that it happened just to clobber Disney.
This is not wise
Problem I have with these Disney-leftist cause issues is. . .
This isn’t new. We have literally known about this since the early 90’s, when Eisner declared more than 2/3 of his workforce was gay. It’s not been a secret.
And if we can look at this issue without political emotions, the issue becomes far less of what folks are.making it.
The whole Don’t Say Gay bill thing is over hyped. The bill wasn’t called that. That wasn’t the purpose of the bill. All that is somewhat settled. But for Disney, being who they are, and knowing the kinds of supporters they have, they are in an awkward position.
They represent many of those interests, but they do try to keep it contained a bit. Long story, and I have years of research on this. No, Disney is not the worst offender in media. From my research, NBCUniversal and Paramount/Nickelodeon are far far worse.
But that means a bill like this, which has people fired up on one side of the issue, puts pressure on them to do something. They played it safe at first. They didn’t say anything.
But when the bill passed, a few of their staff (cast members) walked out, and one organized a protest in front of Magic Kingdom. That is something the company does pay attention to.
So they released a statement. But what did that statement say? It said Disney as a company did not support the bill and would.back measures to repeal it.
So what did the governor get upset about? I gotta say. It doesn’t add up.
This statement was very much a politically soothing statement, meant to show those upset they did hear, but worded where it wasnt incendiary. They didnt call for a protest. Nor did they protest. They simply said they would back measures to repeal.
And that is how our government is supposed to work. You see something you don’t like, you work to get it changed peacefully.
What DeSantis did was retaliation plain and simple. Let’s not paint it as anything else just because we disagree with Disney’s cause here. The elimination of Reedy Creek really can’t stand legally. It ought to be overturned in court, but that will take time to be heard.
The issue legally is that simple. But DeSantis supporters are largely making this to be something it shouldn’t be.
It’s sad. I like DeSantis. I intend to vote for him again. But this was a mess that is troubling for sure.
Disney jumped on the “Don’t Say Gay” bandwagon of lies. That is quite plain. They have consistently in these days chosen any and every path to stick their finger in the eye of faith and family believing folks. The insistence to highlight these things in every movie, every series is what I am particularly talking about. Whatever the workforce, they had the wisdom to not bring it out of the closet. That is a thing of the past. For a company of that standing, one that parents have trusted their children to for decades, one that God has richly blessed – to do this . . . Is a direct assault on the Lord. I would not be surprised if the Lord makes a point of it. That is His business, not mine. I am sure I was not the only one to find Ian’s path interesting.
The real problem with these arguments is simply observation.
None of this is new, or “in these days.” That simply isn’t true.
Disney has for most of my lifetime been an inclusive company. It’s literally not new. And they are far from alone. Walmart and McDonalds both announced inclusion and sensitivity training for their employees back in 2006.
We live in a day when Coca-Cola is telling it’s employees to be less white.
To be consistent in separating from Disney, we will of necessity have to separate from much more. But that rabbit keeps going and going.
In 2019, the top four shows on Netflix were Orange is the New Black, Stranger Things, Raisin Dion, and Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance. All four of them had prominent homosexual characters open about this relationships. And a four had ZERO input or control or influence from Disney. THIS is the media world we are living in.
You’re right in that t is a problem for those who is practice separation, unless. . .unless. . .we are understanding separation all wrong.
Perhaps so . . . But none of the players you mentioned have engendered the trust the Disney has had, for being “pro-family”, following the direction of its founder. None are anywhere close to being as large, as influential. Disney is a “whole ‘nuther ballgame”
Uh. No. Those players have absolutely endangered everything.
Each one of the other major film companies deals with family entertainment. Warner Bros. is a great example. They own the Hanna Barbera characters since the 90’s, including Scooby Doo and the Flintstones. They have their own streaming service, HBO Max.
I’m guessing you won’t want to check out much of that fare, though. And you’re not mistaken. One of its most popular shows last year was Peacemaker, which once again, had a prominent lesbian character. This is the fare placed alongside Scooby Doo and the Flintstones now.
There are also shows like Blue Clues and Peppa Pig. Blues Clues aired an episode centered on a Pride parade hosted by a drag queen in 2020. Peppa Pig has largely stayed out of the arena, until a recent episode featured a parent day at Peppa’s school, and her friend Prissy Polar Bear brought her mom’s with her.
The Loud House made waves last year by featuring Lincoln Loud’s best friend call his parents at home. This friend has 2 dads.
All of this shows have no involvement from Disney, and all of them air on Nickelodeon. No, sir. Disney is not alone here and hasn’t been for some time.
This is the real danger here. By putting our focus on Disney, we are letting so much fly under the radar. It will lead to inconsistency and will produce hypocrisy if we are not careful.
I know many families who ditched cable television years ago. When streaming came on the scene, they were quick to jump to it. It was cheaper and had so much to offer. Now, these families are involved in this battle.
You’re talking with someone who spends his time researching media issues to the letter. There is a LOT to unpack here. But the biggest mistake I see so many making is just assuming Disney is bigger and more expansive than anything else. That depends entirely on what you’re looking at and at which times. And even then, it just isn’t the whole story
The bottom line is not that you are wrong at all. Just that there is so much more. You need to of necessity be very careful in these matters. We can wind up hopping one ship only to get on a much worse one (which is exactly what has happened to many families).
There’s probably too much to keep covering here, and I don’t want to bury any important discussions. Please, though. If you want to keep the healthy discussion going, send me an email or a Facebook message. You know how to find me. I would love to share what I know and what I have found. I have a little bit of insider information here, as much as it is.
And yet, even as we type, a SECOND hurricane is bearing down on Disney World. I looked it up . . . Disney has closed due to threat of hurricane about once every 6 years. An interesting sequence of events.
None of these other players as so grieved the Christian community as Disney. They are, in a sense, a world apart.
I didn’t see your response months ago. Sorry.
You are right that none of these other players have aggrieved the Christian community as Disney has.
But isn’t that a problem? Especially given what I told you? Are we really just supposed to separate just from Disney? Is that what you are proposing?
No. I think you intend separation as a whole. Which I would agree with. I am simply insisting you need a better perspective on this issue.
Disney is far from alone. And if you took them completely down, got rid of them, it doesn’t solve the wokeness problem. It’s happening in other places and companies far more often. It will still be here when Disney is gone.
You gotta careful with these subjects. Hollywood is a big system – 5 major film companies, more than a dozen TV production facilities, and any number of smaller studios and distributors all working toward putting content on screens. It’s far from being run by a single content producer, nor could it be.
Again. If you want to know more, I can share a lot. Just reach out to me. You won’t come away with a different conclusion. You’ll just have a more balanced perspective and probably separate from far more. And you’ll fully understand why.
You do pigeonhole me, a lowly moderator. That being said . . . Why does God deal so harshly with some people over a relative minor offense – like killing Uzzah who was reaching up to steady the ark of the covenant that was about to fall off a cart on the steep incline to Jerusalem, or killing the fellow that was picking up a few sticks for a fire on the Sabbath – and almost completely ignore other major offenses, like David eating the holy “shewbread” that had a death penalty attached to it, or blessing Naaman on his intent to bow before the idol Rimmon while stealing his aged king? It comes down to what you know, the favor God has given you. He “winks” at the unsaved at times (Acts 17:30), but when the Gospel comes, they are fully responsible.
Disney is specially favored in our nation’s history because its founder uniquely loved the family. His movie “The Parent Trap” was overtly crafted as a response to the scourge of divorce. Disney was not godly man, but he did respect God’s ways and built a company around that. THAT is what middle America grew up loving and respecting in return. Disney corrupting themselves in this way is at an entirely different echelon from the likes of Netflix, that has never given any pretense to be so inclined. You are judged by what you know, not what you do not know.
Yes, old thread 🙂 Thanks for picking up on it.
The recent dispute between when Disney and DeSantis seemed regrettable. What a shame that such a successful entertainment company should adopt a leftist cause. What a shame also that Desantis supporters should favor taxation as a remedy.
re: roasting about weather
Did Pat Robertson deserve roasting because of his opinion about weather? How about the rest of us?
The most profound and savage roasting about such things came from the late George Carlin. I won’t link it because of the vulgarity, but every man vain enough to attempt weather control deserves to be roasted till well done. What folly! It is like supposing that Superman can reverse earth’s rotation to save Lois Lane.
Probably, men do not expect to control weather. But weather is a convenient excuse to control their fellow man.
Pat Robertson got “roasted” because he claimed a terrible earthquake that devastated the poorest country in the world was due to some sort of devil pack that occurred way back in the 18th century. It was a bogus claim by him among many coming from the mouth of Pat Robertson. This went well beyond having an opinion on the weather.
re: cause, effect, and Bill Gothard
Did Pat Robertson attribute suffering to ancient evil in Haiti? Is that really so far-fetched? Is Haiti the poorest country in the world? why? does good conduct usually produce good results, while evil produces bad results? isn’t that a reliable generalization?
The generalization may be misapplied, as Job’s friends did when they tried to explain his suffering, and Jesus’ disciples did with a man born blind. What about Pharaoh’s cavalry? did each individual trooper deserve to perish in the Red Sea? were they victims or perpetrators?
Whether Robertson was correct or mistaken about Haiti depends upon the details. how well or how poorly did he support his case? the same applies to Bill Gothard and the weather, or Bill Gothard and his accusers. Are his enemies correct or mistaken about him? how well or poorly do they support their case?
We are so worlds apart on this, there is no explanation that can be given that you will not pick apart. If you can’t see what is wrong with what Pat Robertson said, then God help you. “If you cannot find Christ in the beggar, you will not find Him in the chalice” St. John Chrysostom. I would suggest reading Psalm 49 and Luke 11. A former atheist, Dorthy Day said this, “Those who cannot see the face of Christ in the poor are atheists indeed”. I’ll go with the likes of St. John Chrysostom or Dorthy Day than Pat Robertson or Bill Gothard.
God does judge a people because of the wickedness of the rulers. We all suffer when those over us do bad things, and some of that is directly from the hand of God. The angrier He is, the more this is so.
2 Kings 24:2-3 “And the LORD sent against him bands of the Chaldees, and bands of the Syrians, and bands of the Moabites, and bands of the children of Ammon, and sent them against Judah to destroy it, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servants the prophets. Surely at the commandment of the LORD came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did;”
Nothing angers the Lord more than witchcraft, a direct worshiping of His Enemy. So it is not without reason that terrible tragedies that befall a nation come about because of that. It is designed to make us all afraid. I know nothing of the position that Robertson took, so making a general comment.
I understand. What Pat Robertson claims is that the slave leaders wanted to break away from the French control of the colony and to have success in doing so, they made a pack with the devil. This is based on rumors, there isn’t hard evidence for this. Yes, Haiti is the center of voodoo as brought over from African slaves and yes, that is part of the many problems of Haiti. His comments were condemned by many people like Franklin Graham and Dr. Robert Jeffress at the time. Pat Robertson also said that earthquake was a blessing i=in disguise. It was one of many comments Pat Robertson has said through the years that are false and uncalled for.
It is is as you say, I concur that the comments were inappropriate. Earthquakes are tied to very good things as well as evil things, although the former presumably not with loss of life. I have had my fill of fake facts that nobody validates.
re: Pat Robertson and the Haiti earthquake
A quick internet search shows that Pat Robertson attributed a Haiti earthquake to a devil pact which Haitians made to obtain relief from French rulers long ago.
Pagan materialists believe in neither God nor Satan, so they mock Robertson.
But Christians? We have a warning from Jesus about the tower of Siloam, which crushed many victims. Jesus explicitly denied that the eighteen people crushed by its fall were being punished for sin. But he warned that men who don’t repent will “likewise perish.” Shouldn’t we heed his warning?
re: unjust suffering
Hopefully unjust suffering is rare, but sometimes Christians must face it. That warning comes from 1 Peter. In Chapters Two and Three, Peter exhorted Christians to live good, prayerful, and orderly lives, submitted to natural authorities. In 3:13, he assured them that usually they would not suffer harm if they lived well. But then he warned them to brace for exceptions. If suffering came, they should rejoice and endure it with dignity. So should we.
re: relieving the poor vs. discussing them
Did Dorothy Day and John Chrysostom actually relieve the poor? how? or did they merely talk about the poor? The wiki pages are silent on the question. How about you and me? I have done nothing to relieve the suffering of actual flesh-and-blood Haitians. Because I have not relieved actual Haitians, I dare not use hypothetical Haitians as virtue-signaling tools. How about you?
But our topic is the words of Bill Gothard. He at least deserves credit for earning a hearing from the bottom up. He began by evangelizing street gangs before filling seminar auditoriums and writing homeschool curricula.
Thank you for the reading advice. It easier to dispense advice than to relieve the poor, isn’t it?
Dorothy Day was an atheist and a communist before her conversion. After her conversion, she worked among the poor in New York City and organized the Catholic Workers league to help poor workers. She lived out what she believed. St. John Chrysotom was first a famous bishop in Antioch. The Emperor in Constantinople brought him over (actually kidnapped him) to be bishop in Constantinople. There is a saying “be careful what you wish for” because St. John “golden mouth” went after the wealth and prosperity of the government and in particular the Empress for their luxury and wealth and in not helping the poor and needy of the city. If you ever read his homilies, sermons, and writings, it is all there. One famous quote by him is ” God wants golden hearts, not golden cups”. His uncompromising and fearless stances irritated the Empress in particular and he was exiled and brought back 3 times. He actually did die in exile. He obviously is one of my favorite early Church fathers. He is the total opposite of Pat Robertson.
I knew that Chrysostom was well-reputed, but not exactly why. He must have set a record. How many men get kidnapped into the epicopate? He must be the only one. (He probably also believed that climate control was reserved exclusively to God. That is conjecture, but probably a safe one.)
re: more gold from the golden mouth
Evening prayers in my family often close with the prayer of St. Chrysostom on p. 72 of the BCP:
“Almighty God who hast given us grace at this time with one accord to make our common supplication unto thee, and hast promised through thy well-beloved son that when two or three are gathered together in his name thou wilt be in the midst of them: Fulfill now O Lord, the desires and petitions of thy servants as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of thy truth, and in the world to come, life everlasting. Amen.”
Here in Florida, our most recent weather prayers were on occasion of the hurricane. All were answered.
There is nothing but gold from the “golden mouth”
re: golden mouths and golden deeds
Recently, I noticed the ironic way St. James spoke of gold. In his epistle, he scolded rich men who “heaped treasure together” unjustly. He warned that their gold was cankered with rust because of their fraud. Authentic gold cannot rust, but the crooks he scolded needed severe words of warning. Apparently, apostolic extremism is no vice.
Seriously, St. James was not talking as a scientist. Stop making ridiculous deductions. “The verb for “corroded” in an intensive form and gives the sense that the metal is completely rusted and nothing of the original remains. Gold and silver do not literally rust, but through these images James conveys that every treasure of the world will fail, and “even the most precious and apparently most indestructible things are doomed to decay. But worse than losing their wealth is the judgement that the rich will face. The corrosion will be a testimony against them of excessive and wasteful accumulation… James is saying in metaphorical language that the same divine judgement that will someday render their wealth worthless will destroy them as well.” From Commentary on Sacred Scripture by Kelly Anderson and Daniel Keating. Jesus told us directly to store up treasure in heavens not on earth. Your conclusions are very off.
re: Anderson on James
Kelly Anderson exhorts us to acknowledge the obvious. St. James was using metaphor to warn greedy men. In addition to metaphor, James also employed irony. Because gold was safe from canker, strong men sought security by accumulating gold at the expense of the weak. Men thought gold was certain, but compared to God it was uncertain. Beware, and trust God instead of gold.
We see the same comparison in 1 Peter. Peter says our faith in Christ is more valuable than “gold that perisheth.” Both get “tried by fire,” but faith in Christ comes out “more precious.”